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incomplete recording: The recording begins mid-discussion; the opening of the meeting is not recorded.; 284 suspect passage(s) marked in place.
How this transcript was made. New machine transcription of the whole recording, with 12 voices separated from the audio.
36 short machine repair(s) (65 word(s)) are labelled in place, with the original words beside them: an ordinary word was replaced only where two further machine readings agreed on a different one.
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Well, part of the reason that they do is what he's trying to eliminate here. He's pushing them further over so they won't be so close to the curb. Which one
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There's parking spaces. And there is a curve there. It's a narrow curve and I see you will make them make a wide turn sometimes. Those individuals that's parking on the
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also protects the cars that are parked on this side of the road. So we were just holding that and then bringing our curve from that. We can look at and if we need to maybe eliminate one parallel space on the other side. We can certainly do that.
buses come in, it's easy access for them to maneuver and navigate. Then they tell their friends and then that's more additional revenue coming to the downtown area. That's the way I look at it because sometimes word of mouth supersedes all the technology advertisement in the world.
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I still think a lot of it is people who don't know how to drive. And I'm hoping what he's done right here on the right hand side by forcing people to come out and make a wide turn.
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eliminate some of that. But you're right. That curb right there might be somebody just needs to maybe do some measurements and take a look at that. Yeah.
support that wholeheartedly. Yes, sir. Because it forces them more so out in the middle so they can make that accurate navigation through that street. But I'm sure if you ask Sister Elliot and I know ‸ Alan is here too. I'm sure she's witnessed things like that around that corner herself.
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If we can get that trajectory right. You know. And I like the fact that the buses are close. You know, and it's a little, like I said, it's a little dangerous letting people off there now. But, you know, it's...
us. This is the tour bus. There's a couple things, and we'll get to more of them. But the tour bus is something very unique to this situation. We recognize how important it is, though, to the village to bring those people in, to raise awareness, customers, all of it. So we want to make it as easy and safe as possible.
Let me understand something here. And we're talking about the bus drop-off here on River Edge Drive. Then all of a sudden we're talking about that corner over there.
Well, the bus ‸ is going to come in and drop those people off, and he's going to go somewhere else. How is he going to get back to that spot to pick those people up?
their plans are, because right now it's our understanding. Some of them go into Lee Winter Park and park and wait. Some of them have shuttles going to Lee Winter Park, come back, and go back over to Merritt Island. So they don't have a problem. It's the people that wait in the park and just want to drive around the block. And that's why this intersection becomes so important so that they can get around the block and get back to that point.
We do because we're we do and only because Harrison is much wider than it needs to be right here. So we can pick up the other the additional room going into Harrison in this area. The building is you're right.
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‸ Delineate to anybody walking along there. That's the curb coming up. It also lets us put our streetlights and things ‸ like that in it. And then we have pavers, four-by-four paver squares.
I was asked the question before, and it's a good question, about we're doing more concrete here than we've done in a lot of the other streetscapes in the village than pavers. We've shown it as concrete right now to give as much flexibility to these commercial businesses as possible to what they do in that space. If we need to go in ‸ there and put accents or do something, we certainly can. But right now, we were trying to leave it as ‸ a blanket canvas as possible. So in
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We can go either way. That's going to be a budget decision, really, I think. Okay. The input. As far as the sidewalk, one of the big challenges of this is
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a wheelchair to go down something that's on a steep slope. Well, right now, that sidewalk at the west end drops about four inches across it. Down at the end down here, it drops almost 10 inches in that ‸ area. ‸ And the reason it does that is because the road here drains from the middle of the road to the curb line and then down along the curb line. So we have to change the grading of the road from the middle of the road over because the building is flat and straight.
than the building so it drains away, but it's got to be all at the same elevation, which means we're going to regrade this so that instead of water draining to the curb, it drains to the back of the cars that are parked in there. If you can picture the other side of the road right now, there's actually a concrete gutter that runs down behind the curb. We'd have a very similar arrangement. It'll drain to the back of the cars.
You get out of your car and it's raining and you're going to run into the business, you're not running into the puddle. The puddle's behind you. But it does force us to regrade that half the road ‸ as well. It'll make that space so much nicer and more usable. One of the other things we've done is new and expanded outdoor seating area. You have an existing seating area here. There's a bench underneath a nice existing tree there. Because of the geometry changes, we can widen this out and make it a little better area for seating. Put benches, street, you know, trash cans, street light, make it a nice area.
There's plenty of shade there. ‸ It's a great location for it. The other one is down here. We've changed the geometry of the roadway down here. We've actually increased this island. So it gave us the opportunity for more outdoor seating. There's a lot of opportunity at this corner. What we're showing right now is an outdoor seating area, some additional landscaping around it. That would be low landscaping.
because it's space there. A lot of them. I mean, the brothers Justin and Ed can attest to that as well as the mayor can. Now, you see right there in the corner of where they have the drop-off lane, sir, you have that green spot right there. Is that open parking? Is that going to be vegetation, plants?
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We've improved the pedestrian crossings. We've talked about it a little bit. But one of the things that we want to do is because the road geometry changed, we've shortened the distance people have to go to even cross the road, which is one improvement. We've provided crosswalks across River Edge to
and also across to the Riverfront Park. Very clearly delineated. This landscaping really helps to channel people into crosswalks. Right now, people go in every direction from this corner.
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help illuminate anybody sitting at the crosswalk, waiting to cross the road as a driver approaches. The mid-block crosswalk, I'm going to talk about this a little bit, I think, on the next slide as well. What we've done is this is actually a raised crosswalk, and it has to be raised because we need to put in the ADA, the handicapped parking spaces, and in order to meet the grade requirements, we need to raise these up where they're closer to the grade of the sidewalk.
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about those spaces. One of the complaints that I hear from people that come down here that ‸ do need ADA parking spaces is that it's great to have a handicapped space, but there's so few, if they have a ramp and a side, you know, a van where they have the side ramp, ‸ we have so few parking spaces where they have the availability of the van access where they can unload from their wheelchair and stuff. Will they be able to do that in these spaces? Absolutely. Okay.
Either one of these can accommodate the van on the side. Good. It ties into where the existing crosswalk is. I think one of the other benefits of it, we've put these pavers. This is actually the transition grade is what this is here. But the thing it does is it highlights the fact you have a mid-block crossing. When I was out there,
was telling somebody I saw a mom with two kids and a stroller crossing between cars to cross the road because she didn't realize there was a crosswalk here. Yeah. They'll know when they
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it down. The other thing we did in this intersection, and I'll talk about it in parking, is I'm showing removal of these parking spaces right here. They back into the intersection, and it's a nightmare. So, we've tried to set this up where you have a raised intersection. If you're the driver, you can complete your turning movement before you start dealing with people who are parking and moving. And we may need to even take another space or two, just realistically. Lastly, having something like this raised intersection or this treatment, it provides a gateway element to it. You know if you're coming off 520 and you see this, hey, I'm somewhere. So, I'm here in the village. Even if you didn't know where it was.
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It's usually between ‸ a 4 and a 6 inch elevation difference. So, we can widen it out or shorten it out. I've got to look at the boats to figure out how wide I need to make it. Yes?
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parking. This is that subject. 90 degree parking stalls aren't typical on city streets. Just because of the issues with pulling into them, backing out of them, and all that you have. You can't, if I'm driving this way, I can't turn into one of these parking spaces without coming into the oncoming lane.
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this loop at least. But you have limited options. It's not like a true city block where I can get back to that pretty easily. If I miss my space, I either go into Lee Winter Park
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come in at an angle, so in other words, let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly. The ones that we pull in directly, we pull in. I'm having a tough time. It's just me, not only me, but I've been blocked
backing out at that angle, sometime I have to wait until people clear out. A couple of times, you know, pulling in and out is difficult. Got blocked in by, you know, police officers doing their job. You know, there was an issue. They resolved the issue. But I needed assistance to get in and out, or at least definitely get out. So the question I'm asking you now, you're wanting to keep it the way it is currently, or are you saying we're going to come in at an angle park?
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the parking depth at 19 feet. A typical parking space in a mall is 9 feet wide. I would recommend that you standardize those parking spaces at at least 11 feet wide just to let ‸ people in trucks or vehicles have an easier time getting in. And hopefully, if somebody misjudges a parking space, give them enough leeway where maybe you save some people from having to back out. Or if I'm backing out in the traffic, I have a little more wiggle room to back out.
there's no literature that tells us, here's how you design 90-degree parking on a city street because it just doesn't exist. So these are our recommendations, I guess.
well because they prefer angle parking versus 90-degree parking. Are we going, next question, since we're talking about parking. On the west side of Harrison, there are a lot of handicapped parking spaces. Are they going to be evenly dispersed more or are they going to kind of remain on the west end of Harrison?
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We're putting them all in here. None of them, as they exist right now, would comply with the current ADA requirements. So we're trying to put them where they're centrally located to people to get to the park or to get
they can use the one on the far side of the street. You know, if they want to get to the businesses and these are taken, this is still close proximity. Right.
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Standard, you know, individuals to be there, traditional individuals to be there. Because they feel like sometimes it's all cornered there on his business, and traditionally a two-wheel bike is hard to accommodate a person with
But you know what? There's plenty of parking close enough to his business. The people who are coming to his business that are fit enough to ride a bicycle can walk across the street. You know, maybe I want to park there in the handicapped parking to go to the Village Idiot Pub. Maybe not, you know.
Right. I mean, I don't have a problem where it's at now currently. I just want the opportunity for his voice to be heard, too, as well. Yeah. And I want to make sure he gets in contact.
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It's because it is raised. It makes it so obvious that it's the handicapped parking that it's not only easier for the handicapped people to find than what we have now.
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tell you, but it's in an area where people are being made to slow down, so those people that are handicapped and trying to get in and out of their vehicles, they're in a place where people have to be going really slow, which makes it really, really nice that they don't have to worry about getting run over in their wheelchairs or getting in and out of their vehicles because
as it crosses that thing. I think that's awesome. It makes it so much safer for handicapped people to do it like that. I think it should be like that everywhere, you know, on every street.
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Feel free to make any comment you want on the plan. There are many, many different ways to do it. At the end of the day, we want the one that works for Coco and for you all the best. So I'm the
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parking slots are centralized in one area, and it's not like evenly dispersed out through the whole entire area. That's the point that they conveyed to me. Okay. That's what I'm saying. There
were a couple factors, just ‸ some background on why I kind of put them here. Because of this. Well, you've got the walkway coming from the park and the restrooms right here. Right. So it's wanting to get them close to where there can be a safe crossing of the road. Because I have to bring them up level with the sidewalk or close to it, I have to meet those slopes. I need to be able to transition the grade from that to the adjoining road. So I was going to have to do that anyway for the crosswalk. I save space with the handicapped spaces there. It puts them close to the restroom. It also takes advantage of this existing area here, the tree and seating area, to that's already there. So I get the benefit of that when it comes to transitioning the grades.
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Hey, I want safety first and foremost. I want people to feel comfortable getting in or and out of their vehicle, but more so than anything else. I want to be family friendly. And that's it.
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To me, these parking spaces are not for people who need to get out of their vehicle and walk with a cane or just can't. These are for people who truly need a handicapped spot because they have to unload a wheelchair, a cart of some kind.
And that's really who should ‸ be using them. And the fact that they're all in one space. ‸ You go to Walmart, all your handicaps are, you know, and they're gathered right in the middle. I go down to the garden center. There's no handicapped spots down there, you know. I mean, they're all right there in the center part of the store. So, I mean, this is really no different than you're going to see in any mall parking lot or any place else. If I go over to the mall closest to the door, there's going to be some handicapped spots.
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Exactly what that is we'll work through in design. You know, the ‸ idea of trees, we'll look for opportunities for them, but we certainly can't have any site constraints with the trees. Streetlights we're adding to the north side of the road. We've shown some in here, and we'll go through a complete design in that.
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be no curb here. So if somebody did make a mistake, they're not going to hit a curb or something like that. But we would shift the lanes of traffic over. Again, makes it easier for the turn. Also keeps this alley access way open because it's just a basic.
This, you know, the boat's a good thing because we are looking, we'll ‸ look at these transitions from the raised platforms for the boats. And whatever we do for tour buses here greatly improves things for the boats. The tour, you know, from what we've seen in the computer models, a tour bus is a worse turning movement than even a motorhome trailer. ‸ Yeah.
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So that's, kudos to you, that's what I'm saying. Instead of people trying to, you understand what I'm saying? That's what they would do traditionally in the past, sir. We know that because
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It can be. I didn't because these turning movements are just really, as we've talked about here, they're really tight, not just in this direction, but this is a really strange turning movement too. So
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And under certain circumstances, they would have to put it in an elevator. But because they are providing the same service on the second floor, ‸ they're providing on the first floor. The elevator is not required. So they were able to just put the stairs in.
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You know, my comment is he's a business owner who's renting his space. You're planning something that is permanent and not going to change for a long time. He could be gone next year.
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‸ yeah, the presentation is really good. ‸ We met six months ago at the shop and had a little of a preview of what was going to be done. So my first comment really is I
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out you guys eat a lot of pizza because everybody talks about Ryan's and Ryan's and Ryan's. So they're good. But you need to exercise ‸ a little bit more. It was supposed to be funny.
My next comment, and this is something Brad suggested I say, but ‸ I normally don't go around saying this, but I'm an engineer by background. I design boats. So as boat designers, we are limited ‸ with what we can do in space. And this is a challenge that obviously you guys have here because you have to deal with lots of limitations as he was describing. In any case, I think sometimes we need to step a couple
steps back and see what we have because otherwise we're always working around the same paradigms here. And I think something that it's worth consideration based on a year that I have been in business there, even though my landlord never congratulated me for doing that, is the consideration to ‸ evaluate making Harrison a one-way street.
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So that needs to be considered because that's an area where no matter what, we are going to make a U-turn over there. If we don't find our parking spot heading east, then we're going to make a U-turn and go west.
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can walk safely. So ‸ if we're working on this project, maybe consider, see what it would involve to close the sidewalk, close the whole ‸ loop. And I think those were ‸ the main points. Everything looks good. You talked about starting the project, but your presentation didn't mention any completion of the project.
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Yeah. ‸ The challenge with any of these streetscape projects, and this one will have a challenge, ‸ is minimizing the impact to the businesses. And so, ‸ you know, the project, if those businesses weren't there, you know, might take five months to build. It'll take nine months because of the temporary work done to accommodate existing businesses. And really key to that is the contractor that ‸ we get to do the work. You want, you know, someone who specializes in this and ‸ knows how to do it. You know, it can be
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And then ‸ my last comment is something that Eddie brought up earlier in the conversation, which I think it's really important to consider burying all of the electrical power lines that are going into the building. Because if you're going to spend all this money making this level look nice, it would
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my mind, the definition of a third world city is the one that has, you know, wood posts holding bare wires to get electricity to our spaces of business. That's true. Yes. Okay, so.
right up here, brother. When we come from out of Lee Winter Park right here, we have to, like, cross that little bridge or whatever because they have the little pond or whatever. Retention pond there. Let me ask a question.
temporary loading and unloading? You know what I'm saying? Just in case ‸ this is congested or whatever the case may be. By expanding here that walk, the ‸ bridge itself so we can have a drop-off lane. I'm just ‸ asking
just for future, for the future. It's certainly something that could be looked at. ‸ To be honest, I'm not familiar enough with it. I can't recall it in my mind well enough to say, is there something that would keep it from being able to be done?
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difficult enough as it is. So it's certainly something ‸ we can look at, absolutely. And if there's an opportunity to do something, then we can pursue it. So when we're dealing with other agencies, ‸ it becomes very difficult to try and do some of these things because ‸ we're kind of held hostage to a certain degree ‸ to their requirements. Even with some of the things we want to do with the mangroves, ‸ it's not a simple process either. So there's certainly something we can look at.
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covered a lot of what we believed as well. The power lines was one of them. Even something as simple as going from wood to concrete, ‸ that's pretty simple. If we can't go underground, maybe just.
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When you look at the daisy chain that goes to the Harrison building, it's pretty bad. It's terrible. So, but, you know, just it's food for thought because it does look bad.
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that in front of his place because he likes the fact that you can visually. The handicap spots aren't always taken. Yeah. So it actually promotes visibility to the shop. I think his personal opinion might be,
One way we were discussing that we like it. The only thing to consider, there's only one possible negative if we were to make a list, and that is that people coming from the south to park there. Yeah, it'd be tough. They just got to, but then they'd have to, you know, treat it like a regular block where they'd loop.
Correct. That's the only negative. Other than that, it's actually the best plan. It's a great idea, and they're expanding the sidewalk three feet. That's awesome for the sidewalks. ‸ You
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it would make the Harrison Street one way going that way, ‸ and it would just be much, much easier. People wouldn't have to pass it up and get back out on 520 and go around the block.
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If there's a car sitting in front of my business while the light is red, he's looking at the stuff in my window. If I got those big windows, I'm happy he's stuck there and can't move.
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happy if some people were stuck in front of my shop and couldn't move. How about you, Jan? Then they get to see your window display. I like the slow down thing. Yeah. ‸ And you
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and ‸ this has to be right. We can't just say, hey, let's do this and do that. We have to just know we're doing this right. Also, remember the tree we took out in front of Ryan's?
They don't get very tall, so they wouldn't protrude past the second floor. I mean, there's all kinds of little tricks we could do to shade that red area in front of Ryan's. Anyways. Unless they use umbrellas
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So although we know it probably meets, like, ‸ the parameters of what's, you know, it would be tough because we watch that. My personal opinion is that I love the 90-degree parking because it visually is, you know, it's perpendicular to the buildings and clean looking. Yes. But I don't think it's the best parking situation. Exactly. So that's not a good reason. It's not a good reason to have it. I
that because of the anybody backs out of probably 10 of you have said this already but anybody backs out of any parking spot, a vehicle of any size, almost has to go into the other side of the road to get and I think that's an unsafe situation.
‸ sit down there and watch it and, you know, drink a beer. But so, yeah, there's I think that the two-dimensional doesn't do it justice. I think it's going to be much nicer than it looks on plan, actually. I mean,
if we go out there, if we were to, you know, ‸ go rope them off, ‸ they'd be really big. So it looks good. We just had a few comments as far as the ‸ direction of the parking and the ‸ lines.
But I think that being realistic, the angle works better, even though even though I personally don't like the way it looks, but that's not you know, it's not a fair
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and that's sort of a nice, I guess, accent to where the river is. Because a lot of people do like to hang out in that corner. Now they're going to Ryan's and having pizza. Then they walk across and take their pictures and for ‸ to send pictures
going to stop some of those people from doing the U-turns there. Because once he does that, a lot of vehicles are not going to be able to make that U-turn right there like they do. So you're right. I think instead of it right now it's just a space for people to do U-turns. I think it'll be a lot less of that, which will make it a lot safer there on that corner for people to stop and take their pictures.
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really, I think it's unsafe over there. And we need to make sure we're driving people back, you know, some of the employees. I know Ryan's driving their employees back
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better sense of security as well and will make it more visible from really ‸ from that intersection and from the water. So that in and of itself will help to make it feel more secure. I
mean, I'm already hearing things. You know, people won't get out of their boat because of all the, you know, all the bushes and trees and, you know, unmaintained.
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I understand the appeal of one-way Harrison and what that could do. I just do remember reading ‸ in the waterfront master plan, there was a pretty extensive discussion in there about directions of streets within the village, and I do know that Harrison in the final was shown as two-way. So I don't know all the analysis that went behind that, but.
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that were not anticipated. Part of that is due to the costs associated with the fine grant and the renewal of the leases with the post office and Cocoa Village Partners.
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We have budgeted for one member of the agency or a staff member to attend the Florida Redevelopment Association Conference. It'll be October 21st to 23rd in Tampa. And if an agency member wishes to attend, that agency member can attend. If not, staff can attend. What is the
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staff person? No, ma'am. Then I make a motion that we allow a staff person and none of us go this year since we've already been in previous years. Thank
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