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I guess that's an arguable point.
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like this and making sure they're taken care of correctly and
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service that they're giving over there because of their focus on mission, it seems like that would all work to everyone's advantage and possibly even allow them to expand the base even better because they wouldn't they could rely on you to have the infrastructure to meet those expansions in the areas where they can expand and possibly have ‸ more growth that would occur over there. It's a new funding source that may provide the opportunity to add resources that may also benefit the water system. If you do add staff, there may be some redundancy on line crews that if you have emergencies in the city,
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that. ‸ These are all kind of small benefits, I think, opportunities, but I do think they are opportunities that when you add them all up, may be worth consideration that you have a little bit more redundancy because now you're going to have more resources and ‸ resources won't necessarily be 100% full-time working on the base.
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Threats. The loss of the pursuit investment or your investment to do this proposal.
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They could say, thank you very much, but we're not going to do this even before they make the award. Who knows? This is a I think this is a pretty important couple of bases here with the space program and the creation of the Space Force and all that.
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be somewhere else. ‸ The cash financing of emergency-based repairs that we weren't anticipating would result in potential short-term ‸ subsidization. We believe in the financial plan we may be able to mitigate that by providing emergency reserves in the financial plan, which is where we may want to preserve some of that return in the utility for a period of time to build up those reserves before you start maybe sharing more with the general fund.
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because you will have to be able to respond and you'll have to have some source to do it. So we're going to have to deal with that in the financial plan. You may have stranded investment in the base due to the DLA cancellation or base realignment and closure initiatives. People normally refer to that as BRAC.
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and Cecil Field was a naval base that was there for many, many years. And then all of a sudden they decided the BRAC initiative closed that down and now it's some sort of a commercial enterprise up there. I don't see that as being highly probable for these bases down here with all the emphasis on the Space Force and the space program. So although these are threats, I think you have to consider them. I don't think there may be as much as it would be if you were another base where you had like in Jacksonville where they had the redundancy with the Naval Air Force, Mayport, and Cecil Field. They just had more bases than they needed.
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And they just invest billions in some of the facilities over there.
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But
we have to point these out because these are things that can happen. The other is the unknown condition of the underground infrastructure. As good a job as Jacobs will do, it's trying to figure out what has to happen over there.
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that that is different than we think it is. That's why we think the tariff approach to the rate rather than a fixed cost approach makes sense because even though it's a little bit more involved to get approval for these things, when you can document that these conditions are different than we anticipated they were, you can have an adjustment to your tariff as you're moving forward to cover those costs. So there's a timing issue there though sometimes because and we have to resolve this in
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right here.
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didn't know the condition and you've had to deal with it for a year to meet emergency requirements, you can go back and you can get it approved
in
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your rates going forward.
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There are additional risks or threats associated with having to meet water quality standards throughout the entire base area. Whereas now you only have you're only required to meet water quality standards at the base meters. So and Jack and maybe Ed can explain this a little bit more to you but you're responsible for meeting all these standards with the regulatory agencies. And now whatever happens on
the
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base is not your responsibility.
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But when you take this over, you're going to be responsible over there for the monitoring, the reporting, and the correction of any issues related to water quality.
And backflow issues. ‸ Backflow issues, right?
Could be.
Could be.
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need to do to deal with that, they may have some suggestions about how we can be sure that we can meet those standards if they find that there's some conditions now that would put you at risk in terms of meeting
those
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standards. Keys to success. Leverage existing operations and maintenance workforce that you have. A little bit because you can't do it all with that. You're going to have to, I'm sure, have new folks, maybe even a manager for that whole enterprise and maybe even additional line maintenance crews or larger crews or something of that nature.
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here so you don't have to have a new facility over there because you're not very far in the scheme of things. And you can deploy your established asset management system and just overlay the process that ‸ you go through here over there, which is really, we believe, one of the big advantages you may have.
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I think it will really serve that area well.
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So that's going to be a real important element. Competitive construction pricing, mostly because of ‸ the debt, the cost of debt that you would have. Justification for upgrades, sound CIP methodology, and a cohesive plan for the future. The more we have this figured out and planned correctly when we start, the better it's going to be long term. So you have the team together that can do all that. Make sure that all the
government recognized efficiencies
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are corrected within the timeframe required by the government and that the contract addresses renewal and replacement of all inventory when it reaches useful life. As I explained earlier, and Ed can explain more to you, there's certain things that have identified through the first five years and those are what we're costing out. If we get the contract, then we've got to go say, okay, now what's going to have to happen as we move forward over the rest of the deal before we get a contract, if we get the award before we get the contract signed. Make sure there's sufficient time during the transition to prepare the city of Cocoa to assume full-time operations and maintenance. We don't want to have this trigger be pulled and all of a sudden somebody say, okay,
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So that would be a key part of our proposal and really a key part of the financial plan too.
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‸ I
mean, two years, don't we have two years? Like once they
Before it's awarded.
Oh, before it's even awarded. From there.
Yeah. And we just need to be sure that as we go through that, we monitor that closely so that the plans and any staffing, any hires or whatever has to happen occur before we're actually going to be expected to deliver on our services. I know one of the things that in the past I don't know how it is now, Jack, but engineering and even getting a capital improvement program accomplished because you had a number of engineers ‸ that left and it was very difficult to even move forward to get a capital improvement program accomplished. So
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this over there. Hopefully he's got the resources to do what he needs to do now and ‸ his utility for the city,
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And the regulator tariff, that transparency,
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request adjustments through a tariff through a regulatory kind of a process where the government will stand you instead long term. Recommendations. We believe that the city should request an extension of time for the due date for the proposals to be submitted to the DLA due to the COVID-19 interruptions. We would recommend that you
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with a stipulation that notices to proceed will not be
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the due date for the proposals. And it isn't written in here, but one of the reasons we think that's important is if you want us to, it would give us time to see if we can put together the team to add ‸ wastewater back into this proposal, which we believe would give you a more competitive position with the DLA.
Because they're going to have to handle wastewater somehow, and if you're doing water and everybody else is submitted for both water and wastewater, they may be facing a difficult dilemma of, well, what do I do about wastewater?
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I
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have to split it out from somebody else
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think it's probably unlikely any others will submit just for wastewater. I don't think that,
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Beach serving wastewater now?
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But do we believe that they would be submitting on wastewater? Jack, have you got
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Yeah, I think so.
Yeah. We don't believe they'll be submitted on wastewater. So that's something that we might want to add into the recommendation here, is that if you ‸ do this and you do approve ‸ those task orders, we would come back to you before the extension is approved or when it's approved with an ‸ addendum to those task orders to add the wastewater ‸ into the mix.
You said something about the inspection. So we've gone out there and we've looked at the assets, the pipes and stuff, and we know what we're dealing with as far as the conditions and ‸ all that stuff on the water side. Have we also done that with sewer?
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the sewer lines out there, especially among the newer construction out there, because just from personal experience, when that new construction took place on those homes out there and those sewer lines put in, the day the people moved into those homes, there were sewer issues.
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before people moved into those homes. And that was brand spanking new construction. ‸ Really? oh yeah. I answered the phone and took those phone calls 24 hours a day.
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but the sewer lines were literally crushed and destroyed after they were in the ground. And there were issues for probably three years after that new construction that I know of personally.
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even though the water in the houses was not always, the plumbing was not always hooked up, but in the ground, it seemed to be okay. um The very first day that that new house opened, somebody took a shower and flooded the entire house because nobody bothered to hook the pipes up in the wall to anything. So that new construction that went on out there is definitely a concern because
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prison and there was a lot of shoddy construction. So I would definitely have concerns about those sewer lines that were installed during that new construction. But other than that, I mean, I haven't heard anything over the years about any of the water issues, but sewer lines are definitely something to be concerned about. So if we're going to approach that sewer, I'd
be careful. We
need to take a really hard look at those sewer lines out there.
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The reason we would, we would do something about Patrick.
Yeah, Patrick.
Okay.
oh yeah. he was bad. It was all that stuff that Kennedy Construction built.
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that looked over a number of years on these these type of privatizations. And I can't remember the exact number, but it was 20 some of them were awarded for water and sewer together. It was only about two that were awarded for water only. And
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‸ So it just seems to us that the DLA is probably wanting a one-stop shop for underground utilities. Electric is also a utility that people can submit before, but that's a whole different um element of expertise. And so um I don't think it would be unusual for them to go water and sewer and then electric with somebody else. I
have no objections to looking at the sewer. I just i just want to know that we get an opportunity to do a really good section on this I
just i want to add real quick that I know back in 2012,
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Cape side, they went through the entire
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and changed out all their water lines out there. They were literally um tearing
down
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facilities
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And that took place uh probably, as probably around
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probably 2015. and uh But I know there's a lot of septic tanks out there, more so than there are sewer um out there on the Cape side. Now,
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that's a whole different story. I don't know anything about their systems out there. I don't know if they actually, if it was a deal where they were doing Patrick and and uh um and the the Cape at the same time when they were doing those lines. But they actually went in and demolished a lot of the old agent facilities there um when they would start cutting back. And uh like I said, during the same time, they're upgrading all their their water systems. Well,
they've identified, there
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but ‸ and they've identified what we have to propose to do over the first five years, specifically the
the
renewal
and replacement and capital projects
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yeah
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‸ those things.
‸ okay. And I see them on the way.
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But
if we're, if we're, awarding the contract,
we can,
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dollars to do this project. if You approve that. So you've got to get approval from the government.
And we would have to have it factored in our financial plan. Yeah. And what about wastewater? Is
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would be.
Yeah. After after the shuttle program, they really went through there and... uh Well,
that's the end of the presentation. That's the discussion slide. So um um that's what it costs.
I will i was just gonna ‸ say, but Ed's gonna ‸ give us the details on what you do ‸ know about the system, like the age of the system, the number of miles in the
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how old it is and how expansive, I mean, how many miles of pipe is it?
I'm not sure. I haven't looked
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Okay.
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I
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think in the financial slide I showed you, it
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million of the first
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their preliminary estimate is. They'll do a more detailed estimate of that,
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will have to be spent in the first five years. And Patrick. ‸ And those numbers are in the presentation. ‸ Let me see if I can go back to see where they were. No, I think we left them in at that level. No, they're not in here right now. Yeah, but those are the numbers.
‸ What year was the system built? Patrick? Yeah, Patrick. Yeah. Yeah. 50s. What kind of pipe
is
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that?
I got it.
And where are they in terms of sea level?
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‸ Right there.
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
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No, sir. I'm all set. Thank you very much.
Okay. Deputy Mayor?
Yeah, ‸ I have just a few. Councilwoman Warner kind of asked the same question I had written down was just the unknown conditions is the issue for me. I'm pretty sure it's probably still a lot of that old cast iron or clay pipe out there probably as well. So, and who was, who was, who does the repairs on the base now? Is it, I know that's probably contracted out.
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It
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go out for good. Yeah,
I would like to know that.
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out there it was Johnson Controls, their long run.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that, that'll, if that conversation can happen, I don't know if that, is that allowed or not, um, to find out exactly what they have on, you know, on their reports. Um, I think we need to know that before, you know, this is a big commitment.
If
there's
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a group that's contracting for them to do that, uh, and been doing it for a few years and maybe that some of the private companies are trying to get them on their team. Right, right. That's something we would need to, you know.
When all this new housing was built by Frank Kennedy Construction, the, um, housing maintenance was all handled by Johnson Controls, which of course has been changed and done over the years, but
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and that's who handled all the issues that came up from the new
construction.
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higher end housing and stuff. Everything that got built back in the
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problem. Every, every bit of it.
And that was a part of that past history he was talking about, you know, these, you know, kind of finding out what kind
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Because
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we started this in 2016
it must have...
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I don't think.
Not very much.
Yeah.
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all you guys did was update a couple of plans and yeah. And those were plans that were going to have to be updated anyway.
It
wasn't like it was specific to this. Yeah.
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chance and here we are,
you
know, so I just, um,
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won't pursue it independently of the city. And, and,
I
was asking about the wastewater, that Jacobs is not interested in being the consultant on the wastewater side.
I think it's a, ‸ it's a contractual. ‸ Yeah.
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the wastewater side and the wastewater side is Corollo, uh, engineers. And, you know, we checked with them. They haven't undertaken this type of activity previously.
And
so we would have to get a firm commitment from them or if that not be possible, uh, work with Jacobs, um, and Anthony to determine how we're going to do that.
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Uh, okay. What were the two, uh, now we have, uh, two items that we needed to, uh, ‸ I lost the presentation. You know how to get it back
up?
I
scrolled out of it somehow.
so NASA does it own, does their own distribution system? They maintain their own distribution system?
Yeah.
We
have a, yeah.
Well, they have a contractor. Uh huh. And would our employees have to have security clearances and things like that?
Do you want to, have some, or something here again? Do
you
want to summarize that for us?
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Yeah,
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government rates, yeah. And I think
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yeah.
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government
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Yeah,
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Yeah. Yeah.
Well there's always been a huge, I mean, even if you're a local contractor, even like Mr. Goins, it is dad sent somebody out to work on base property, you have to pay them what the government says, to usually double what you're already paying.
I
love working on base.
And
then, and then the folks with, and then folks with PFC had that same issue when they got a big contract out there with SpaceX. Yeah. But they were paying them at their rates, but then they came back and had to pay them for two years back, you know, at the government
rate
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to make up that difference.
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I was, I was having to pay a heavy equipment operator, probably when they worked out there, probably whether the heavy equipment
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So
yeah.
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There are many kinds of awards.
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going to pay more.
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that there are, and we've talked to Jack a lot, and he
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points. There's a lot of challenges and unknowns and risks to him and his operation of this
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whole thing,
given the fact that it's not going to give
the utility a whole lot of
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Because you're not
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getting the economies of scale because
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he's going to have a big challenge
to make this work. uh And we're going to try to get the budget to cover it all. Just like you just talked about. I hadn't thought about that. You may have um morale issues because if you have a set up a separate fund over there and people working there, people working here, these people are making more. So it is going to be a challenge from the utility standpoint. ‸ And at some point, you'll need to consider whether it's worth it for the return that will come into this for the city. ‸ Any other things that you think are some subjective positives of being involved in bases?
And also with Florida being a
right-to-work state,
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and I know most of the military bases in the state of Florida,
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guys that there might not be ‸ union, but still the union has to represent them. And then of course
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be the seniority factor.
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sure that that um so Jack and his guys will be able to work out if we came to that point.
‸ Yes. uh Council, what you have before you are a couple of things to consider. uh The first one I think uh is is an easy decision, and that would be that
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receive back, we can come back to you all for a decision on on on movement as far as on the wastewater side or for the entire proposal itself.
Right.
um That's a
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lot on the wastewater side since we've done absolutely nothing, right? Okay. I
just think, ‸ without ‸ extension, I don't
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um I mean, I guess that's another option,
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you don't
do any work on the, if you don't proceed on the water, as if you're going to go for the July 22nd day,
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if you believe that you want to be at least in the water game that you probably need to move forward on that. Although, I personally believe that if you're not on the water and sewer, it really does,
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Yeah, you'd
maybe be submitting a proposal that wouldn't be your best effort.
And I guess ‸ talk about the return on investment, we've just talked percentages. I really don't know
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sense of how big the contract is and, you know, what could we actually generate.
Yeah, and I think Mike covered it to some extent. And what we know of are those five-year assets that
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basis uh there to kind of look at that. But, uh
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a significant amount of work to get to that point where
you'd
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have a an accurate number that we would want to present publicly, you know, that that you could be confident in.
that
you know
because it's a competition uh with other people out there,
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in this kind of a noble form So, we'll just ‸ figure that out to get whatever information you ‸ feel comfortable about it. But
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Because, like, the task order is on tomorrow night's council meeting agenda, so there'll be a motion on that tomorrow night. But it's already there. um It's
more for a sense of direction. I mean, we could issue that request for an extension. you
know
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It was a good idea four years ago, and it's a good idea today. I do have the the
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to just go ahead and move forward with the water issue completely and wait and see on the wastewater if we get that extension. But I also think we need to go ahead and ‸ be talking to the engineers on the wastewater side and and feeling that out so that if they don't want to be involved, Jacobs can go ahead and get started or we can figure out what else we're going to do. i I don't think we need to waste any time because if we ask for an extension and we get it, we don't know how long it's going to be.
Yeah, we'll want to hit the ground running
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past quarters and you move forward on the water while we're waiting to see what happens. If we get the extension,
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ignore the wastewater in the meantime either. I think we need to be having some conversations and people need to be ready to go, whether it's our current engineering
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‸ Jacobs or somebody
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right then.
Yeah, but if we decide to go that way, we are going to let them know that we're interested in both, right? I mean, we're not just...
Yeah, but so...
okay
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‸ okay yeah we've submitted the letter of interest as well as attend that on-site meeting, which were requirements to submit your uh proposal. So
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in ‸ the room and who... Okay. okay
And there were how many other... How many firms? You don't know. Okay. ‸ Okay. The big ones.
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uh-huh
yeah but The green light is
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million.
Essentially to take that through the full proposal.
And you just said that if we're not going for sewer, we're at a disadvantage Well,
I mean, I'm not saying that you don't have the ability to win it. i understand when you look historically and ‸ have a selective event, there's been more water and sewer combined,
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individuals So I would say maybe when it ‸ enhance your chances rather than not having it.
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uh ‸ what we don't understand ‸ my thinking also is there's three
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sewer
lanes, and water stream
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together And so, if any of those smart, large private utility or water you've done this before many times, ‸ are anticipating the words you did it and deliver our records,
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know how
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could they also have to submit a student
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for the extension?
I'll make a motion for that. That we request an extension of time for the due date for the proposals to be submitted to the DLA
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Okay, we got a motion from Councilwoman Warner. Second.
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All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. ‸ Opposed?
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That passes unanimously. Okay, what we got up next is approve the task order for Jacobs.
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So this is just approving to put it on the agenda.
Yeah, we can bring that for tomorrow night's agenda. Or tomorrow morning, actually.
Well, I was going to say it's already on the agenda, so.
And if the other Council members sort of agree with you, we would
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and say that he would give
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proceed
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water only and be preparing
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we going to mobilize the wastewater if they do give us the new state system so we can pull that trigger out?
I'm not sure I can agree with that. ‸ I'm just, I'm really kind of shaky.
I
think a part of
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dollars that the government's putting out right ‸ now, the federal government, and I just, they're, I don't know. It's clear to me what the expenses are going to be or the level of expense. It's not so clear to me what the potential benefits are in terms of the revenues. And as you said, we can't really discuss that. So I'm a little shaky on ‸ what my vote would be. I really need to think about this one.
‸ Is this under consent tomorrow night or is it under council business? I'm looking.
I
believe
it was, I believe it might have been under consent.
‸ No, there's not the, it doesn't look, the task order 2020-10, is that what this is?
No, I don't, it's a
walk-on.
No? Yeah, it would be a walk-on. It's a walk-on. Okay.
So it won't be on consent. It'll be a walk-on.
Certainly. Yeah.
So councilwoman
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has time to think about it and ask some additional questions if she wants to. So if we say now, yes, Jack, we want you to go ahead and walk it on the agenda tomorrow night.
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check out some things further.
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I mean, we're doing this.
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we walk, if we walk this on the agenda tomorrow, I would like Jack to have his recommendation so that the public, when we spend this kind of money, I definitely want them to hear from our, you know,
that's just. And this, the item would be coming from Jack, so he would present that item.
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I have an analysis that I could share individually.
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Okay. And because when you say a 3% rate pressure, because we're already talking about, I mean, ‸ some of the projections, you know, for our water rates, we're getting a lot of pushback on those right now. So the 3% rate pressure is at 3% increases in our, what does that mean exactly?
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Yeah.
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It really isn't even a one time thing. It happens.
You
spend the money.
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And so you're still operating ‸ the utility.
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all that means is that maybe
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you have to continue to do
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more projects. You might have to borrow a
little
bit more money because you don't have the cash to do it.
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But I don't believe it's going to show itself and really increases in the rates. It's just ‸ that kind of pressure.
‸ Yeah.
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Everyone is going into this. You just, and that's why, you know. And it's a little bit, yeah.
Like a team meeting or something where I could share that with me and me.
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and maybe Matt can set those up.
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Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. The meeting is at 10 a.m. Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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Well, we could do them this evening probably maybe, or if somebody wants to stay and talk after the meeting, I mean.
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No, I'm good. I'm good. So.
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in the morning? Sure.
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any difference to me, everybody's submitting, that's what they're submitting for.
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I mean, it's all the same thing everybody has to do. The only place where
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of the investment. Now, if they have a management
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with GSD, they might have profit to manage the ‸ contract. Okay?
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So
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people
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money.
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You know,
for their life.
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Yes, government contract.
No,
there wouldn't
have been
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100
people
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‸ Right.
Do you need anything else from us?
No, that's it. ‸ We can proceed with the request for the extension, and then we will bring the task orders as a walk-on agenda item for tomorrow morning's meeting.
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supplier that they have on base that does auto repairs for water and sewer?
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That's something, ‸ even if, ‸ just say we win the contract, we'll still be using that same supplier for our repairs on the base.
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We wouldn't have to.
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Yeah. Okay.
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Yeah,
we're right, right. Yeah.
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Our
problem.
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Well, that's, yep.
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Right. There you go.
‸ Right. Right. That's right. Right.
And I know a lot of these things you're talking about is not in this discussion, but for me, ‸ I think a lot on decision like this.
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There's a
lot of layers to this.
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hours sorting through that. But I think Mike and Ed
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Yeah.
I
got you.
I
got you.
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you've received all the bonus of the award. So that's not a guarantee. You have to go back and,
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Maybe that's the reactor. Or maybe that's the big catch up. And now they're hardly going to do anything for the next 40 years.
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or 40 years because you know the infrastructure is, you know, it's suffering in a easier place.
And with any contract, there's always that transition period. So, yeah, I mean, it's not like, you know, but yeah.
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I
meant in terms of once we're awarded that we would not take a hit.
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Yeah, this is certainly a unique submittal for a local government like us that really invests in safe investments. There's some element of risk with this. You know, of course, you try to mitigate that as much as you can, but there is an element of risk.
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I mean, when it comes to the requirements.
You might see
some of the folks that are that was at the meeting that might fall out of this whole deal because of, you know, because they're
seeing
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who's bidding.
Mm-hmm.
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And I've seen that happen.
Mm-hmm.
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I'll probably figure it out. I've been using Zoom.
Yeah, she has Office 365, so that would Yeah.
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Okay.
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Yeah, Carrie can organize the meeting for tomorrow morning.
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I can work with IG. Yeah. I'll work with IG. First thing in the morning. ‸ I can share the screen.
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Yeah.
Okay. So, Jacobs is really confident in this.
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Okay.
Well, thank you.
Thank you, guys. We appreciate it. Yeah.
Thank
you.
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the PowerPoint and I'll look at that tonight too?
Sure. Yes, ma'am.
I
think unless you might have something else. Is there anything else? That's it. Okay.
Motion
to adjourn.
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Second. Second from Deputy Mayor Goins. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye.
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Opposed? Aye.
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Flag: numbers, amounts, negation or names differ between the machine readings; the recognizer flagged its own output · 00:51:36–00:51:37 · unresolved: the words are not shown (unclear audio); listen to the recording
[unclear audio — 0:02 ▶]
Flag: the recognizer flagged its own output · 00:51:38–00:51:39 · unresolved: the words are not shown (unclear audio); listen to the recording
[unclear audio ▶]
Flag: the machine readings disagree here · 00:51:39–00:51:40 · unresolved: the words are not shown (unclear audio); listen to the recording